onemuseleft | (no subject)

Okay, so I just watched 27 and 28 and I don't know what to do with the cafe scene. I'd gone with the assumption that Zhao Xinci didn't know the BCE's identity, but apparently he does? And he's been meeting with the guy, possibly reporting on ZYL to him, behind ZYL's back all this time? Like, this is the one secret he's been keeping that I'm having a hard time justifying. It just screams of a lack of respect?

And it makes his three year absence all the more confusing then. So he worked with ZXC, told him his identity, tolerated him hunting Dixingren like dogs - but the second ZYL takes over he bails entirely and doesn't look back long enough to even get a glimpse of the guy? What the hell? I'd been working on the idea that he left during the change of command because he couldn't stomach the SID's methods anymore and took the disruption as an opportunity to remove himself from it, but this kind of throws that out the window?

The fact that there's no follow up to this, to ZYL and SW's conversation afterwards, is possibly the most frustrating thing in the world. ZYL's clearly feeling betrayed - his words to Lin Jing are very clearly meant for himself as well, but it feels like Shen Wei's got nothing? He mostly just stood there in silence, which, I get it, is kind of his default but holy shit, dude.

The fact that the Ministry evidently knows who he is just makes it worse, too, when I remember ZYL risking his carreer to cover for him at the wedding with Gao.

I just... the look on his face when he saw them together. His voice when he said he thought they were friends, that he's made the choice to trust Shen Wei over and over... I know he's choosing to do it again, but damn. I wish we'd gotten to see them really have it out, I wish we'd gotten some answers aside from "I've been talking to him behind your back because I knew you wouldn't like it"

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From:

marycrawford

Man those are all really good points. I like this scene for two reasons: 1) "The one we both love" and 2) showing how much Zhao Yunlan has grown--how he makes so much room for Shen Wei to tell him WTF is going on instead of straight yelling, how quiet he is--but then Shen Wei gives him nothing. I facepalm every time at Shen Wei's first response is "How much did you hear?" which is the WORST.

And you're right, it makes no damn sense, but that's part for the course when I watch the second half of the show; it feels like it would need at least ten more episodes (and a bigger budget, alas that it got ripped away from them) to do it right.

From:

onemuseleft

The "one we both love" line kind of surprised me considering the source, but hey, I'll take it. Shen Wei's face when he said that was amazing. I love his stupid face. I love the show giving us that blatant validation too. Bestfriends, boyfriends, whatever. Even Dad knows what's up.

(Now, does Dad approve I wonder?)

Bai Yu did such a great job with this scene, I thought, every expression on ZYL's face was amazing, his voice was amazing, his body language - he was so clearly upset but controlling it. And when he said that line like "I've chosen to trust you every time" - I got super emotional.

It's reassuring that I'm not the only one who felt that was weird. You're not the first one to says osmething about the second half feeling rushed or incomplete. I'm honestly probably going to handwave some of the details and just live off the intensity of that interaction.

From:

china_shop

*shows up a month late* Hi! *waves*

FWIW, I don't think Shen Wei's been meeting with Zhao Xinci all this time. (I even wrote a fic where Zhao Xinci didn't know Shen Wei's identity until that meeting, because there was no reason for Shen Wei to tell him earlier, and plenty of reasons not to.) But Shen Wei is the Dixing ambassador, Zhao Xinci works at the Xingdu Bureau, and they have a prior professional connection, so if Shen Wei wants to find out what's going on with the Department of Supervision and to try to have some influence over the research lab's project, as the Envoy rather than as a SID consultant, it's the most logical way to go about it, I think?

And telling Zhao Yunlan about the meeting beforehand a) risks damaging the relationship between him and his father even further, since Zhao Yunlan will likely take Shen Wei's side, and b) means his father will be constrained in what he can say, because the SID doesn't have clearance to know this stuff yet? Plus, c) will make Zhao Yunlan pissed off, and Shen Wei has so little romantic relationship experience, he might just not be prepared to risk a fight? Idk.

FWIW, I generally assume the Envoy stopped working with Zhao Xinci's SID about halfway through his run as leader (Da Qing worked for Xinci, and surely if Shen Wei had encountered Da Qing back then, he would have kept closer tabs on the SID?!), and started working independently to catch rogue Dixingren before the SID could get their hands (or bullets) on them.

But yeah, that conversation. *pets Zhao Yunlan forever*

From:

onemuseleft

Hiiii!

The Da Qing thing always throws me because surely Shen Wei would have met him? Either he disappeared a LOT longer than Zhao Yunlan says he did or Zhao Xinci didn't actually let the BCE have much day-to-day interaction with the SID. If Da Qing wasn't really a field agent, and the BCE wasn't welcome in the office, then they might not have crossed paths. ZXC is such a paranoid bastard I can see that happening. Either that or Shen Wei bailed on the SID even earlier than the change in power and ZYL either didn't mention it, or didn't know.

I'm overthinking this, aren't I?

I'm definitely going to ignore the whole meeting up with ZXC thing as much as possible because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth (and doesn't make SENSE! He doesn't like or trust ZXC why on earth would he go to him to get info on ZYL? HE HAS HIS OWN SPY! Chu Shuzhi's been giving him intel on Zhao Yunlan for years!).

Now ZXC knowing that his son's illegal Dixingren boyfriend is also the Black Cloak Envoy makes for some interesting fiction opportunities, so that part I may have to play with a little. ^_^

From:

china_shop

Either he disappeared a LOT longer than Zhao Yunlan says he did

Oh, does ZYL say that the Envoy was working with Zhao Xinci's SID the whole time? I don't remember that. (I am in perpetual need of a rewatch, though, so that's probably just my terrible memory.) I assumed Shen Wei bailed quite early on, when it became clear Zhao Xinci was comfortable killing Dixingren on a technicality.

I'm overthinking this, aren't I?

Hee! Isn't that what fandom's for? :-)

He doesn't like or trust ZXC why on earth would he go to him to get info on ZYL?

He doesn't have to like or trust him to deal with him professionally. Shen Wei works with the Regent, who he doesn't like or trust. Maybe that's just how things go in politics? (Also, Shen Wei just says, "I re-contacted him after you and I first met, to get information about you." I assumed that meant a phone call to the Envoy's contact at the Xingdu Bureau, rather than an in-person meeting. /random assumptions, YMMV, la la la :-)

Maybe asking Chu Shuzhi for ZYL's personnel file would be a little too revealing? Whereas going through the proper channels makes it unremarkable? Idk. :-)

his son's illegal Dixingren boyfriend

Does Shen Wei count as illegal if he's working with the SID, though, or does he fall into the same category as lao-Chu then? I wondered if that might have been one of ZYL's motivations in recruiting him, once he suspected Shen Wei of being Dixingren: to protect him both from Haixing authorities and from the Black-Cloaked Envoy. :-)

makes for some interesting fiction opportunities, so that part I may have to play with a little. ^_^

\o/ \o/ \o/ :-D

Edited (clarity) Date: 2020-05-22 02:02 am (UTC)

From:

onemuseleft

does ZYL say that the Envoy was working with Zhao Xinci's SID the whole time

I remember him saying something like "He hasn't been around these three years" or something like that in the first episode. I remember it because it almost sounded like he was taking it personally, and it's what gave me the impression that BCE disappeared during the changeover. I'm gonna have to go back to the beginning and do a total rewatch just to get this timeline straight aren't I? UGH.

Okay, I went back and he just says "Since I became chief, this is the first time you visit" so I guess there's a LOT of room for interpretation there.

I assumed that meant a phone call to the Envoy's contact at the Xingdu Bureau

Much better than him showing up at ZXC's for tea and biscuits and chit-chatting about Zhao Yunlan.

Does Shen Wei count as illegal if he's working with the SID, though, or does he fall into the same category as lao-Chu then? I wondered if that might have been one of ZYL's motivations in recruiting him,

I straight up assumed that was a big part of why he was so determined to get Shen Wei to work with him even before he knew for sure he was the BCE - Shen Wei just seemed like he was really bad at NOT being an obvious Dixingren? And ZYL was like, oh lord, he's really smart and helpful, but also so pretty and so obvious, we should recruit him so he doesn't get deported or, you know, shot in the head like a dog.

I might be projecting though. :)

I feel like the show expects me to like Zhao Xinci more than I do? So I'm over here like "Can I have five thousand fics where he tries to break up Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan please" and I think the show wants me to think he's just trying his best. As a character I find him extremely interesting and kind of indicative of how bad the political situation between their two peoples really it. As a dude I want to punch him a little.

Hee! Isn't that what fandom's for? :-)

NGL overthinking this stuff and hashing it out is a huge part of the appeal of fandom for me. Other people always see things I missed, or interpreted things differently.

From:

china_shop

he just says "Since I became chief, this is the first time you visit" so I guess there's a LOT of room for interpretation there.

Oh, right. Yes! Especially since there's been another chief in the interim, I think. (Zhao Xinci calls Zhao Yunlan "the third generation Chief of the SID" in ep 16.)

rheasilvia put a SID timeline together here, fwiw. :-)

I straight up assumed that was a big part of why he was so determined to get Shen Wei to work with him even before he knew for sure he was the BCE

Yeah, I think it's a combination of that and trying to control Shen Wei/stop him wandering into dangerous situations on his own. If Shen Wei works for the SID, ZYL can threaten to deduct his bonuses! *g*

I feel like the show expects me to like Zhao Xinci more than I do?

Haha, in my experience, fannish opinion is sharply divided on Zhao Xinci. He's such a hypocritical bigot about Dixing, and an -- if not bad, then definitely unsympathetic and clumsy parent, but I think he does mean well within his limited perspective, and he's competent. Whether you consider that makes up for his many shortcomings... I find him interesting, somewhat sympathetic as a person and not particularly likeable or sympathetic as a political actor. If that makes sense?

Mostly I find it really hard to forgive him for badmouthing ZYL to the rest of the SID! Just -- WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT???

(We're actually discussing him in the Focus on Supporting Characters series on

sid_guardian in a couple of weeks. Did I mention that already?)

From:

onemuseleft

You've summed up my opinion of Zhao Xinci pretty completely. As a character he's complex and multi-faceted, as a person he's such a douchebag. I love to hate him, but I really enjoy watching him work because he clearly does love his son but he's just such an awful parent that it's easy to see why Zhao Yunlan might not necessarily believe it.

The SID thing - I've seen it posed as a loyalty test to see if these people are worthy of his son? But I don't know if I buy it. And even if I do, it's still just such an awful plan. All it does is undermine ZYL because if his superiors are willing to do that to him, how much respect and authority can he really command?

I just watched episodes 29 & 30 and I am. Just full of emotions right now, expecially einvolved Zhao Xinci. And Lin Jing, oh my god. Like, I assume ZYL sent him back as a double agent, but I also am Worked. Up.

From:

china_shop

The SID thing - I've seen it posed as a loyalty test to see if these people are worthy of his son? But I don't know if I buy it. And even if I do, it's still just such an awful plan.

Yes, especially coming straight after comments like, "I know my own son. Only he would say such random and impudent things." *facepalm*

*hugs*